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Old 09-21-2012, 06:18 PM   #16
DAM
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Originally Posted by ericdalinda View Post
post secondary education thinks its more important to do SWOT analysis then to teach you industry layouts.
I actually do it in my job, so guess it has some relevance
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:34 PM   #17
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Certified Engineering Technologist? Base salary is 75k?
When you go into more specialized areas yes. Hopefully get into systems analysts or maybe even get my CCNA ect.. That means more $$. Becoming a certified tech is about a 64k range. You only make more with more exp and more certs Becoming an architect would net you 250k+ per year. I already have an doors open @ Oracle.
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:18 PM   #18
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colleges tell their students anything to get them in the doors.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:09 PM   #19
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250k...come on...i find that hard to believe.

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When you go into more specialized areas yes. Hopefully get into systems analysts or maybe even get my CCNA ect.. That means more $$. Becoming a certified tech is about a 64k range. You only make more with more exp and more certs Becoming an architect would net you 250k+ per year. I already have an doors open @ Oracle.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:18 PM   #20
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250k...come on...i find that hard to believe.
They don't pay engineers out of U of T $70K to start.... Architects out of schoool? Maybe $40K if youre lucky.

These are the delusions that colleges feed their students.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:29 PM   #21
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seriously is that what higher ed places are telling students? i find that hard to believe like someone as a IT architect making 250k consistently.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:19 PM   #22
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yea definitely. its alot more prevalent in the trade schools where the profs and the people coming in to teach the students will gloat about how much they make. It's sort of to entice them..

The difference being that in trades you usually have to work for 5 years as an apprentice making peanuts to finally graduate into a $40K salary. Then usually they start their own business and can make more cash that way.

As for the IT sector... a college grad is realistically going to be making next to nothing. Maybe if youre lucky $30K to start. You got people coming out of Waterloo whom you are competeing against. The IT market is over saturated. And most of the big companies are bringing in contractors from India to fill the network engineering roles. They come in for typical 1-2 year contracts (Tech Mahindra is a big one) and are shipped back out - at least thats what I've seen. Or they go with Engineers from reputable universities. College grads are really being beat out of the market.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:12 PM   #23
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honestly, the amount of people making 250K outside of owning your own business and the banking sector a grade schooler can count up to.

Im sure there are architectureal technologist what ever you want to call it, making 250K.
but if I owned a business and needed said services Im going to pay a quarter million dollars to the one with the most experience. That means someone trying to become an architect will never get my business, thus never gaining experience,thus never recieving that high pay.

its sad... Im 23 and I feel how shafted our generation is;baby boomers reluctant to retire. for example theres 13 teachers over the age of 70 in the toronto school board collecting pension cheques as well as paycheques as they are still teaching, one of them is 76. this behaviour is going to get a lot more popular as the baby boomers have made incredibly poor investments, purchases, and didnt save for that "rainy day".
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:28 PM   #24
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seriously is that what higher ed places are telling students? i find that hard to believe like someone as a IT architect making 250k consistently.

My father is a systems architect and has been for the last 35 years. I can assure you that architects make nowhere close to 250k a year.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:11 PM   #25
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honestly, the amount of people making 250K outside of owning your own business and the banking sector a grade schooler can count up to.

Im sure there are architectureal technologist what ever you want to call it, making 250K.
but if I owned a business and needed said services Im going to pay a quarter million dollars to the one with the most experience. That means someone trying to become an architect will never get my business, thus never gaining experience,thus never recieving that high pay.

its sad... Im 23 and I feel how shafted our generation is;baby boomers reluctant to retire. for example theres 13 teachers over the age of 70 in the toronto school board collecting pension cheques as well as paycheques as they are still teaching, one of them is 76. this behaviour is going to get a lot more popular as the baby boomers have made incredibly poor investments, purchases, and didnt save for that "rainy day".
How do you feel shafted? You're 23, starting a job that might lead to a career. Making $40K per year. Not alot of 23 year olds are in those shoes.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:28 PM   #26
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he's one of the old timers that needs to really retire... he's shafting these 23 year olds...

working for someone will never net you the most...but it's risk to reward. you want more...you risk more. you want to have steady you trade off. also you want more free time you get less pay. those who are deemed to successful by their bank account size makes lots of sacrifices. for one they are not on here goofing off and pontificating on the web...myself included.

like the karate sensei says...there are no secrets to karate except for hard work.

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My father is a systems architect and has been for the last 35 years. I can assure you that architects make nowhere close to 250k a year.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:47 PM   #27
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My father is a systems architect and has been for the last 35 years. I can assure you that architects make nowhere close to 250k a year.
Your father is getting the shaft. I know many people making 50k+ just starting out @ rogers. If you know where to look, there's money I don't need to explain myself as people in the IT sector vary like yo-yos. Some make 120k+ a year and some make 80k a year. Having a business is what I'd like to do and then progress into a architect after having year of exp behind me. Consult companies for 250$/hr and make piles of money. That's what I want to do, and will do. What you think is right is your own opinion, I come from speaking with people who tell me aprox. what they make and will make my own conclusions. Any fool who thinks that the tech industry only makes 40k a year needs a reality check. Yes, I've worked @ Genband and seen many Indians come abroad, but only for 6-8mnth work terms. Also worked @ Ciena and seen how they operate. Once you get networking, it's not hard to find some money trail that can net you 70+ per year.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:40 AM   #28
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Your father is getting the shaft. I know many people making 50k+ just starting out @ rogers. If you know where to look, there's money I don't need to explain myself as people in the IT sector vary like yo-yos. Some make 120k+ a year and some make 80k a year. Having a business is what I'd like to do and then progress into a architect after having year of exp behind me. Consult companies for 250$/hr and make piles of money. That's what I want to do, and will do. What you think is right is your own opinion, I come from speaking with people who tell me aprox. what they make and will make my own conclusions. Any fool who thinks that the tech industry only makes 40k a year needs a reality check. Yes, I've worked @ Genband and seen many Indians come abroad, but only for 6-8mnth work terms. Also worked @ Ciena and seen how they operate. Once you get networking, it's not hard to find some money trail that can net you 70+ per year.
Young and ambitious... I like that. The only thing you are missing is a reality check.

From a consulting point of view you might bring $100-120 per hour for a short term contract which would equal your 250k/year (if you don't count statutory holidays, vacation, etc) but the reality is it's simple economics: supply and demand. And there's plenty of supply out there. Gone are the days of the Y2K bubble - everyone is an architect nowadays. Hence, your 250k/year is just the usual, I know a guy, that knows a guy, that makes 150 bucks an hour and does nothing all day...it's a dream. There may be an odd few people making this money short term but why pay someone 100 an hour when the same job can be done for 20 in India? And the scary thing, a lot of the times this job can be done even better than locally, after all there's 1.2 billion ppl to choose from vs 30mil...

Now if you were in a niche sector like IT security or "user experience" you might get away with a higher rate contract for a short term but the reality is it's not sustainable. You may make 100 bucks an hour for 6 months but then you'll sit without work for the next 6 months because the economy is in recession or some other market downtime...

And there is the other side of the coin: ever heard a saying "programmers are born, not made"? People do not get smarter with age and experience, they only get wiser....


just some $.02
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:32 AM   #29
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Young and ambitious... I like that. The only thing you are missing is a reality check.

From a consulting point of view you might bring $100-120 per hour for a short term contract which would equal your 250k/year (if you don't count statutory holidays, vacation, etc) but the reality is it's simple economics: supply and demand. And there's plenty of supply out there. Gone are the days of the Y2K bubble - everyone is an architect nowadays. Hence, your 250k/year is just the usual, I know a guy, that knows a guy, that makes 150 bucks an hour and does nothing all day...it's a dream. There may be an odd few people making this money short term but why pay someone 100 an hour when the same job can be done for 20 in India? And the scary thing, a lot of the times this job can be done even better than locally, after all there's 1.2 billion ppl to choose from vs 30mil...

Now if you were in a niche sector like IT security or "user experience" you might get away with a higher rate contract for a short term but the reality is it's not sustainable. You may make 100 bucks an hour for 6 months but then you'll sit without work for the next 6 months because the economy is in recession or some other market downtime...

And there is the other side of the coin: ever heard a saying "programmers are born, not made"? People do not get smarter with age and experience, they only get wiser....


just some $.02
I understand where you are coming from. Do the people you know, know where to look? Where to find these kinds of jobs? Where there's plenty of opportunities to make 250k+ a year? I know where to look, names and contacts of people. Getting someone from India for 20k per year is wrong. Ciena (IT and patent company) pays them twice as much for a 6 month contract. My gf's uncle @ Oracle is getting closer to 200k per year and is just shy. It's not unachievable. If you believe you'll only make 50k per year, then by all means, have that mindset. But I for one want want to make @ least 100k+. Would it strike you if I told you, that my mother who is a RN makes around 120k per year? She's not a doctor. When her co-workers make 60k? If your a go-getter, you'll what you want. Who you think is paying for my college so I come out debt free? Love my mom
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:00 PM   #30
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LOL, you're going to be in for a pretty big reality check when you graduate.

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Young and ambitious...
Young and ambitious is him taking an Engineering Science degree, working a full time job to pay for his tuition and living expenses. Not taking a cush college diploma program while his mommy foots the bill.

Fortunately, you still need hard work and effort for jobs out there. The big corps won't touch you, doesn't matter who you know. HR runs the joints now and things are done alot differently than before. There are still hook ups but you need the credentials. The difference in the peice of paper will hold you back.
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