Lookign to fix up a 1992 e34 M5

[BigD]

Originally Posted by drenius

What does the rebuild entail exactly, the engine/body has 276k on it, and from what i read the engine is good for 400k?

The basic idea is to replace all wear components. Unless you had a major failure/problem, things like the block, crank, rods, pistons, head, cams should last "forever". Valves could but they will go sooner than other things, especially in these motors if it wasn't maintained well, including proper valve adjustment.

So having said that, a rebuild means complete disassembly, cleaning every component (removing carbon from pistons and valves etc etc), then putting everything together with new bearings, seals etc.

Realistically, the head and block will need to be decked, crank polished, block re-honed, some other machining. Things will get expensive if it turns out you need to replace some of the normally non-wear items like valves, pistons or even the head. The general vibe this car gives out is that it's neglected, so I would brace myself for the condition of the motor and its rebuild cost to reflect that.

Originally Posted by drenius

Would this mechanic Bill at Motex be able to do the rest of the repairs, I would want to do it all in one sitting, bring the car and order the parts, unless he can get the parts cheaper.

I'm sure he can but I doubt he'd want to. He's an engine builder and machinist. And whoever does the repairs for you, it will be in your best interest to source the parts yourself at the best price you can find. The mechanic will have no vested interest in getting you a good deal on parts - he'll use (read: you'll pay for) the easiest source he can find.

[njansenv]

Note that some mechanics will not use supplied parts, or won't guarantee their work when using supplied parts.

I'd argue (and perhaps it's semantics) that the above description falls under "refresh" or reseal and not rebuild.

[BigD]

Originally Posted by njansenv

Note that some mechanics will not use supplied parts, or won't guarantee their work when using supplied parts.

Never heard of this and I've had two motors rebuilt. If you show up with a garbage bag full of parts, sure. But if everything is either OEM or known superior aftermarket, there's no reason for this.

Originally Posted by njansenv

I'd argue (and perhaps it's semantics) that the above description falls under "refresh" or reseal and not rebuild.

So what is a rebuild then? Forging new pistons by hand and cutting a new block out of a chunk of iron?

[njansenv]

I've seen it a few times - never with engine rebuilds, but certainly with car maintenance items (brakes, suspension parts) that the owner has listed. A lot of shops count on the mark-up of the components.

Not interested in an online pissing contest - typically, I'd expect to need/plan to go one size up in piston size, and replace the valve seats and (at least) recut the valves. If you find the bores are good enough for just a hone and new rings then great. I just wouldn't count on it. In the (non-BMW) circles I've traveled, a re-ring, hone and bearings is not a "rebuild".

Pulling the motor apart, measuring cleaning and resealing is certainly much cheaper and easier. With any luck, you'll find that is sufficient on your motor, but once it's apart you may find things worse than you hope - hope for the best but plan for the worst.

[DIY]

As much as all this sucks to hear, it will save you headaches and worrys if you ever plan to get it running right. If the cars just leakin oil and not burning it, replacing seals and some light machining should work just fine. But as stated you'll never know till its apart. If you can try to work on the other stuff while you wait for the engine (if you go that route)... Finding your own parts is always good imo as you know what's on your car, you get good brakes, susp parts etc, but sometimes you find a good guy who will do it right ... Or will actually follow your instructions ... If you got some air tools you should be able to tackle susp stuff no prob, really breaks are the next level up from changing your oil

[drenius]

Sounds like i have a winter project on my hands! If everything works out i will have my dream beast of a car for spring time. The "rebuild" on the engine is probably a must, seeing as it had like 7 or 8 different owners in its 20 years of service. But what worries me, is the rebuild title of the car.
I am the kind of person who wants to see the bottom line. We all know that this is a toy first, and we have to pay for toys. But would you pay 12k for this toy? To most people it will be a very expensive (20 year old) mode of transportation, and possiably third a collecters item due to the rebuild title.

I want your opinon if this car is going to be worth 11-12k on the market once it is properly fixed up. My opinion is, it might not be.

Dont get me wrong, i want this baby all to myself, but stuff happens and sometimes we need to sell...

$4900 buy price
$1500 parts
$3000-4000 rebuild
$1000 miss.service

[BigD]

Originally Posted by njansenv

Not interested in an online pissing contest - typically, I'd expect to need/plan to go one size up in piston size, and replace the valve seats and (at least) recut the valves. If you find the bores are good enough for just a hone and new rings then great. I just wouldn't count on it. In the (non-BMW) circles I've traveled, a re-ring, hone and bearings is not a "rebuild".

Pulling the motor apart, measuring cleaning and resealing is certainly much cheaper and easier. With any luck, you'll find that is sufficient on your motor, but once it's apart you may find things worse than you hope - hope for the best but plan for the worst.

Personal definitions aside, a rebuild is just that. You take the engine apart and put it back together to spec. In the best case, if an engine is new, it's just disassembly and reassembly. If it's in good shape, it's just a matter of cleaning it and resealing it. Some people doing a job on a budget will even reuse bearings if they are within spec.

So planning for the worst is fine, which is why I also said what are some things which will likely need to be done (especially since this car seems pretty neglected). But whether or not it's acceptable by your definition, a rebuild doesn't have to consist of anything beyond disassembly, checking components and reassembly. Anything beyond that is on a need basis (which is also a personal definition - my last rebuild didn't reuse anything but the head, cams, block and crank).

[njansenv]

Do this project because you WANT to, or don't do it: you're unlikely to make money, and you'd do very well to break even. E34 M5's values are lower than they've ever been, with clean title cars in good shape slipping under 10k if you look hard enough.

I had seriously considered calling the seller to buy the car as a fun driver, but these cars can define money pit: especially if you're paying someone for the work. I'd check the valve clearances, do a compression and leak down check on the engine: if that checks out, then find out where the oil is leaking from and replace then necessary gaskets. Clean the car up, and enjoy it for what it is: a unique, great sounding driver. If you decide to part it out, you'll easily get your money back but won't make a ton of money for the amount of time it takes.

Restorations of this type are rarely something that make sense on the bottom line!



In response to BigD - I agree with your final definition of rebuild: "You take the engine apart and put it back together to spec." The problem to me is that many people will reseal a motor, throw bearings in it, "maybe" hone it to break the glaze and put new rings in, then call it "rebuilt"...often without measuring and checking anything, or putting new valve guides and seals in, or...
I (and nearly everyone in the hobby I know 'in person') would call that a refresh. Back on topic.

Originally Posted by drenius

Sounds like i have a winter project on my hands! If everything works out i will have my dream beast of a car for spring time. The "rebuild" on the engine is probably a must, seeing as it had like 7 or 8 different owners in its 20 years of service. But what worries me, is the rebuild title of the car.
I am the kind of person who wants to see the bottom line. We all know that this is a toy first, and we have to pay for toys. But would you pay 12k for this toy? To most people it will be a very expensive (20 year old) mode of transportation, and possiably third a collecters item due to the rebuild title.

I want your opinon if this car is going to be worth 11-12k on the market once it is properly fixed up. My opinion is, it might not be.

Dont get me wrong, i want this baby all to myself, but stuff happens and sometimes we need to sell...

$4900 buy price
$1500 parts
$3000-4000 rebuild
$1000 miss.service

[DIY]

Originally Posted by njansenv

these cars can define money pit: especially if you're paying someone for the work. I'd check the valve clearances, do a compression and leak down check on the engine: if that checks out, then find out where the oil is leaking from and replace then necessary gaskets. Clean the car up, and enjoy it for what it is: a unique, great sounding driver. If you decide to part it out, you'll easily get your money back but won't make a ton of money for the amount of time it takes.

Restorations of this type are rarely something that make sense on the bottom line!

Agreed

You really have to look at ths as something you would like to keep, if its not a dream car of yours to keep, you either need to learn to wrench it yourself or keep saving... Might I add your not gonna pay the 12k to get it in order and sell, your gonna make your "beast of a dream car" have your way with her and then potentially sell it ... And who knows by that time it might be worth more...as you said toys cost money, but you will get some of it back!

[DIY]

http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147443

Maybe this guy can give you some info, he's lookin to sell his m5 its a 1991 but he's done a bunch to it and might help as a guideline.. Its for 14k

[TEUTONICFOOL]

WOW!!! no offense but i think u r way over your head right now. just because the engine is leaking a bit of oil does not necessary mean she needs a rebuild/refresh. u need to address the overheating problem first. after making sure she is not going to COOK herself to death, give her a Proper/Professional engine shampoo, run the engine & looking for leaks. could be as simple as a valve cover gasket or oil pressure switch. only then will u know what kind of fun/headache u r getting yourself into. rebuild/refresh an s38 is not something u take likely, easily triple whatever u paid for to buy the car in the first place.

[sproule905]

I have a buddy who is a mechanic at Open Road.

PM me I can give you details. I had my M5 in there on Sat - sneaky, but he calibrated the pedal sensor and checked out some codes my reader cannot find.