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View Poll Results: How would you rate BMW customer service on a scale: 1 is awful and 10 is fantastic
1 to 2 2 6.45%
3 to 4 7 22.58%
5 to 6 4 12.90%
7 to 8 3 9.68%
9 to 10 15 48.39%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-05-2010, 02:51 PM   #46
pissedcustom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davericher20 View Post
bimmerforums.com, e90post.com.......there's lots out there that I don't go on
Davericher20 - thanks. Would like more recommendations from people out there if possible for other popular bmw forums.
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Old 09-05-2010, 02:59 PM   #47
pissedcustom
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 325isStephen View Post
I have to agree with Dissembler, I'm a tech at a volkswagen dealership, and I assume the warranty on squeeks and rattles is the same as ours which is 1 year or 20k.

Is that fair? I don't really think so, but does that mean that the dealer has to fix it for free? NO. I know it sucks, but that's the car manufacturer deciding not to warranty that type of concern, not the dealers. The fact that they looked at it at all and attempted to fix it show's they were trying to help you out.

You should have done your research before buying your vehicle and seen that bmw does not cover that concern and is not responsible to fix it, thats part of the deal you made when you bought that car, you agreed to the warranty that it comes with.

You simply cannot expect a tech to spend alot of time on something they will not get paid for. I don't know about you, but I don't work for free, I have bills to pay and I need to make money while i'm a work to do so.

I understand your not happy that they did not fix it, but i'm sure you were told that this type of concern is not covered under warranty, if they did not, then they should have, and they should have told you that if you wanted to get bmw to fix it, to call the after sales guy and complain about it. To me it sounds like the service advisor tried to help you out and attempted to solve the issue for you, but after trying once, they can't justify to spend more time on it. Likely would have been better for them to not help you at all, and direct you to call after sales and have sorted it out that way from the get go.

I have to say I really hate the mentality of you spent 50k on a car it must be perfect in every way, and that everyone must do everything for you immediately for you regardless if they are going to get paid for it or not. As far as I know a 3 series does not come with a slave.
325isStephen - You have it all wrong. My car was delivered to me with the noise and I complained about it to service in the first week of getting it when it has a few hundred or so kms on it. So it was definitely under warranty for every problem. And I took it to the dealer I bought it from.

I'm never said I think everything should be perfect. I don't think waiting 1.5 years to get a noise fixed could be considered "immediate" by any stretch of the imagination. Most people think I gave the dealer way too long to fix it before complaining to aftersales - which I did after 1.5 years.

I actually didn't know that rattles, squeaks, noises etc.. was only usually covered for 1 year - that's interesting. I'm not sure what BMW's warranty is in that regard. In any case, it doesn't affect my situation. I was not told anything wrt this when I bought the car.

I'm curious - you work full time as a tech for VW ? If you spend time working on a car's noises after the first yr, even if the dealer asked you to work on it you don't get paid - is that right? I find that difficult to believe that the dealer expects you to work on a car for free.
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Old 09-05-2010, 03:08 PM   #48
pissedcustom
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Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30 View Post
Perhaps my comment was a little harsh, Kudos to the OP for rattling enough chains to get his noise fixed.

But his comments gives the impression that he has the attitude of those yuppie BMW owners that bought his car for the image and not because of how good the car is, expecting the car to 'drive itself' and maybe even cut his toe nails. It also seems like he expected BMW to bend over backwards for him because he bought a mid-level 3-series, yes you can expect premium service, but as an industry I don't think any other dealership would have spent hours on end to find your noise. Yes hey should have dealt with his situation better, but i'm' sure if he walked in there with attitude no one really cared to help him.

Thats all i was trying to say, nothing about people who drink starbucks or coffee in general.
T.Dot_E30 - Thanks at least for the 'kudos'. I really don't want to get into a discussion about me. This is about my car and a noise that could have and should have been fixed by the dealer on the second attempt and wasn't fixed because they likely did not want to spend any time on it. Even though I noticed the noise in the fist week of owning it and set up a service within the first 2 weeks of owning it.

I don't like being accused of things so I will respond to your post regardless. I'm not sure if I could be considered a Yuppie or not or whether that is a bad thing. As with most people I would guess, I bought the car for the image and for the performance and for the drive and the safety and the supposedly good service most BMW owners expect. I don't expect them to bend over backwards for me - just to do what I paid for. I believe in getting what I paid for. If that is considered bad by some people, so be it. I don't live my life trying to please the masses. Part of my complaint is that I have good reason to suspect that the dealer did NOT spend hours working on my car. They gave it one try and that was it. I don't think there is anything wrong with having an "attitude" when the situation calls for it. I treat people the same way they treat me. Pretty simple.

p.s. I don't need my car to cut my toenails - I get pedicures for that

Last edited by pissedcustom; 09-05-2010 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 09-05-2010, 03:12 PM   #49
325isStephen
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Originally Posted by pissedcustom View Post
325isStephen - You have it all wrong. My car was delivered to me with the noise and I complained about it to service in the first week of getting it when it has a few hundred or so kms on it. So it was definitely under warranty for every problem. And I took it to the dealer I bought it from.

I'm never said I think everything should be perfect. I don't think waiting 1.5 years to get a noise fixed could be considered "immediate" by any stretch of the imagination. Most people think I gave the dealer way too long to fix it before complaining to aftersales - which I did after 1.5 years.

I actually didn't know that rattles, squeaks, noises etc.. was only usually covered for 1 year - that's interesting. I'm not sure what BMW's warranty is in that regard. In any case, it doesn't affect my situation. I was not told anything wrt this when I bought the car.

I'm curious - you work full time as a tech for VW ? If you spend time working on a car's noises after the first yr, even if the dealer asked you to work on it you don't get paid - is that right? I find that difficult to believe that the dealer expects you to work on a car for free.
I stand corrected, the dealer should have fixed it for you with the car being with in that time frame as it would have been something bmw would reimburse them for. I would recommend taking your service elsewhere if that is how they treat their customers. Some service advisors out there only care about selling work, and unfortunately don't do much for customers with warranty, wish it wasn't this way, but It means you should find another dealer to take care of you.

Yes correct, if I work on a car that is over the 1 year/ 20k squeeks and rattles are not covered. Generally we will try to fix it for the customer anyways as goodwill, and I will not be paid for my time by VW. It's worth it to help a customer out rather then pissing them off sometimes, to gain loyalty so they keep coming back. However this is not something we have to do, also this is not something we would spend alot of time on, at that point we would have to charge the customer for diagnoses and repair.

Really VW should cover squeeks and rattles for the full 4 year/ 80k warranty, but they don't and thats not the dealerships decision, so it puts us in a tight spot when it comes to making customer's happy.

The thing is, for those reasons we can't justify spending alot of time on a customer's car when we are not going to get paid for it, sure helping a customer out and spending half an hour on it isn't too bad, but wasting half a day on finding a problem isn't going to happen. Alot of the time, the rattles come from people's crap in the trunk and what not, so they can often be resolved by a quick drive and the removal of a loose item inside the car or trunk. As a tech we know the common things that tend to make noises and can find those things quickly, but as I said, something that is impossible to find or fix is another story.
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Old 09-05-2010, 03:37 PM   #50
pissedcustom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 325isStephen View Post
I stand corrected, the dealer should have fixed it for you with the car being with in that time frame as it would have been something bmw would reimburse them for. I would recommend taking your service elsewhere if that is how they treat their customers. Some service advisors out there only care about selling work, and unfortunately don't do much for customers with warranty, wish it wasn't this way, but It means you should find another dealer to take care of you.

Yes correct, if I work on a car that is over the 1 year/ 20k squeeks and rattles are not covered. Generally we will try to fix it for the customer anyways as goodwill, and I will not be paid for my time by VW. It's worth it to help a customer out rather then pissing them off sometimes, to gain loyalty so they keep coming back. However this is not something we have to do, also this is not something we would spend alot of time on, at that point we would have to charge the customer for diagnoses and repair.

Really VW should cover squeeks and rattles for the full 4 year/ 80k warranty, but they don't and thats not the dealerships decision, so it puts us in a tight spot when it comes to making customer's happy.

The thing is, for those reasons we can't justify spending alot of time on a customer's car when we are not going to get paid for it, sure helping a customer out and spending half an hour on it isn't too bad, but wasting half a day on finding a problem isn't going to happen. Alot of the time, the rattles come from people's crap in the trunk and what not, so they can often be resolved by a quick drive and the removal of a loose item inside the car or trunk. As a tech we know the common things that tend to make noises and can find those things quickly, but as I said, something that is impossible to find or fix is another story.
Thanks - wow, that's crazy. I had no idea full time techs employed by a dealer would work on a car and not get paid. Seems somewhat ridiculous to me. I understand if the dealer doesn't get paid by the manufacturer for it if it is paste whatever time period - but not that techs work on cars for free. Something seems wrong with that.
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Old 09-06-2010, 02:18 AM   #51
325isStephen
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Originally Posted by pissedcustom View Post
Thanks - wow, that's crazy. I had no idea full time techs employed by a dealer would work on a car and not get paid. Seems somewhat ridiculous to me. I understand if the dealer doesn't get paid by the manufacturer for it if it is paste whatever time period - but not that techs work on cars for free. Something seems wrong with that.
Well, we do it as a good will thing to make sure the customer will continue to come back, obviously a pissed off customer, is not one thats going to come back and spend money, so its sometimes neccessary to do small things like that. If it turns into an intensive job, then obviously thats when it stops.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:46 AM   #52
EstorilM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 325isStephen View Post
I stand corrected, the dealer should have fixed it for you with the car being with in that time frame as it would have been something bmw would reimburse them for. I would recommend taking your service elsewhere if that is how they treat their customers. Some service advisors out there only care about selling work, and unfortunately don't do much for customers with warranty, wish it wasn't this way, but It means you should find another dealer to take care of you.

Yes correct, if I work on a car that is over the 1 year/ 20k squeeks and rattles are not covered. Generally we will try to fix it for the customer anyways as goodwill, and I will not be paid for my time by VW. It's worth it to help a customer out rather then pissing them off sometimes, to gain loyalty so they keep coming back. However this is not something we have to do, also this is not something we would spend alot of time on, at that point we would have to charge the customer for diagnoses and repair.

Really VW should cover squeeks and rattles for the full 4 year/ 80k warranty, but they don't and thats not the dealerships decision, so it puts us in a tight spot when it comes to making customer's happy.

The thing is, for those reasons we can't justify spending alot of time on a customer's car when we are not going to get paid for it, sure helping a customer out and spending half an hour on it isn't too bad, but wasting half a day on finding a problem isn't going to happen. Alot of the time, the rattles come from people's crap in the trunk and what not, so they can often be resolved by a quick drive and the removal of a loose item inside the car or trunk. As a tech we know the common things that tend to make noises and can find those things quickly, but as I said, something that is impossible to find or fix is another story.


car under warranty.
it is faulty.
dealer, being the agent for manufacturer/importer, fixes.
owner does not get involved in who gets paid, who doesn't get paid, how much they get paid or how much do they not get paid;
that's between dealer and manufacturer/importer.

shaby service by dealer in this case.

end of story.
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Old 09-06-2010, 02:47 PM   #53
pissedcustom
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Clicking Noise in 3-series BMWs since about 2007

I've posted on some other threads and from what I can see from other people, this clicking noise in the rear of the 3-series BMW seems to be an issue dating back to at least the 2007 model and applies to at least 2008 and 2009 models.

Check out these posts where people complain about the same noise in the rear from the rear parcel shelf area. Also notice that the techs seem to make the same excuses to not fix it:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...34#post7953034
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210216
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3795460
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=hat+shelf
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...32#post7952932
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...244&highlight=
http://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewtop...=9203&start=45
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:13 PM   #54
Bimmermann
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I'm going to step in here and give my two cents.

I'll confirm that techs do NOT get paid:

a) if they don't find a problem
b) for warranty diagnosis times
c) for repeat repairs
d) for repairs that BMW Warranty deem not to be issues with the vehicle

We do not build your vehicle. They are built in Germany by regular people like you and I. People are not perfect and carelessness/mistakes happen. We DO try our best to resolve issues in your vehicle within reasonable parameters.

As for your PDI comment, a PDI ensures that the vehicle is safe and fully operational. We do not drive around in your car for hours to ensure there are no subtle noises coming from your rear parcel tray. Be reasonable.

The money that you paid for Warranty when you bought your vehicle goes straight to BMW Warranty, not the dealership. If they will not pay the dealership for the repair, your repair never happens. That's just the way it works.

The dealership should have advised you of that and assisted you in getting your complaint redirected to the proper channels. That was a mistake on their part. But again, they are just people like you and I. I'm sure you were not the most amicable person to deal with when you went in. We did NOT build your car and we do NOT deserve to be screamed at. This might not have been the case with you, but I see this happen on a daily basis. You will be treated in the same manner that you treat people. That's life.

I can tell you that the Quinn's are great people and I have personally seen them go above and beyond to help customers. There is no need to slander a dealership, their employees, and the owners. For every one person that has had a horrific experience like you, there are a hundred others that have had impeccable service. The CSI rankings of the dealerships will confirm that.

It is unfortunate that you needed to go to such extreme measures to have your issue resolved. Your issue is a relatively isolated issue or the reports compiled would surely have created a PuMA measure or Service Bulletin. I have personally not run into one RO that has had that complaint and I have worked on thousands of E9x's. Maybe your vehicle was built on a Friday.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:57 PM   #55
pissedcustom
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmermann View Post
I'm going to step in here and give my two cents.

I'll confirm that techs do NOT get paid:

a) if they don't find a problem
b) for warranty diagnosis times
c) for repeat repairs
d) for repairs that BMW Warranty deem not to be issues with the vehicle

We do not build your vehicle. They are built in Germany by regular people like you and I. People are not perfect and carelessness/mistakes happen. We DO try our best to resolve issues in your vehicle within reasonable parameters.

As for your PDI comment, a PDI ensures that the vehicle is safe and fully operational. We do not drive around in your car for hours to ensure there are no subtle noises coming from your rear parcel tray. Be reasonable.

The money that you paid for Warranty when you bought your vehicle goes straight to BMW Warranty, not the dealership. If they will not pay the dealership for the repair, your repair never happens. That's just the way it works.

The dealership should have advised you of that and assisted you in getting your complaint redirected to the proper channels. That was a mistake on their part. But again, they are just people like you and I. I'm sure you were not the most amicable person to deal with when you went in. We did NOT build your car and we do NOT deserve to be screamed at. This might not have been the case with you, but I see this happen on a daily basis. You will be treated in the same manner that you treat people. That's life.

I can tell you that the Quinn's are great people and I have personally seen them go above and beyond to help customers. There is no need to slander a dealership, their employees, and the owners. For every one person that has had a horrific experience like you, there are a hundred others that have had impeccable service. The CSI rankings of the dealerships will confirm that.

It is unfortunate that you needed to go to such extreme measures to have your issue resolved. Your issue is a relatively isolated issue or the reports compiled would surely have created a PuMA measure or Service Bulletin. I have personally not run into one RO that has had that complaint and I have worked on thousands of E9x's. Maybe your vehicle was built on a Friday.
Bimmermann - thanks for chiming in.
I could not find the CSI rankings of specific dealerships in Canada to confirm what you are saying. Could you please tell me where I can find them. I found the general rankings for customer service by car companies by JD Power, and BMW was ranked behind Lexus, Cadillac, Jaguar and Acura - that's embarrassing!

My PDI comments are not unreasonable at all. If I'm paying $1,400 for pre-delivery inspection I expect the car to be delivered to me without noises that should not be there, or that they be fixed quickly. Why would I pay an additional $1,400 for a safe car that works when I just bought the car for $50k?? It's not as if I thought I was paying for a dangerous car that I have to get out and push. That's like paying for an all day pass to canada's wonderland and then having to pay an extra $2 at each ride because they just checked it was safe with the previous passengers!

As you say - I treat people the same way they treat me. If they start giving me bull about not being able to hear a noise because they don't want to take the time to fix it, or telling me on 2 occasions they never had time to do much with my car because they were too busy with other cars even though my appointment was booked 2 weeks in advance, and they're arrogant and patronizing and rude - I do get angry and I speak my mind and call them out on their bull. Pretty simple rules. Treat me how you expect to be treated and we will be fine.

I am not slandering anyone. I am telling people the truth about my experience with BMW. The truth cannot be slanderous. I don't really care about how well they service other customers - I'm concerned with how they treated me and the service I got. Do you vote for your political party based on what your neighbor wants or based on what you want?

If you read my comments and the links in my posts above, you can clearly see that this is not at all an isolated incident - it is in fact widespread and affects many BMW owners. You're right - BMW should have created a service bulletin a long time ago (this issue has been plaguing cars since 2006) and then I wouldn't have been subjected to the aggravating noise in my car for almost 2 years and have had to spend hours and hours forcing BMW to fix my car.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:57 AM   #56
Bimmermann
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Perhaps you should re-read your own posts. You have done nothing but defame the dealership, the owners, and their employees. And let's be honest, that was your intention. You could have easily blanked out the dealership just like you blanked out your personal information on the field report.
What have you accomplished by posting this on here? Who have you helped? Your original post was to inform the community how poorly you perceive you were treated. Yet you don't state what you said or how you acted. There are two sides to every story.

No where in this thread have I seen an out pour of people coming forward with the same issue as you. You referenced a couple of posts from other forums that don't even have any relevance to your issue. Two posts reference 1 series vehicles, one references an e92. So you list five cases of a similar issue as yourself, yet you assume that this is some widespread problem that BMW is trying to "sweep under the rug". Several of the threads even have posters chiming in on how other dealerships had difficulty resolving the issue AND how many other makes/models have similar issues.

You make an assumption that the techs that couldn't resolve this issue are "incompetent". We are mechanics not engineers. We fix cars so they run properly. We don't isolate and resolve design flaws or fabrication issues. You assume that this was such an easy fix. But you haven't the slightest clue to how much time it took the mechanic to identify and resolve your issue.

Congratulations! You "beat" the big bad dealership. You must be impressed with yourself. Take a minute and think about who's lives you may have affected by posting this. And for what? A little noise that bothered you. Get over yourself.

Last edited by Bimmermann; 09-08-2010 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:40 AM   #57
pissedcustom
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmermann View Post
Perhaps you should re-read your own posts. You have done nothing but defame the dealership, the owners, and their employees. And let's be honest, that was your intention. You could have easily blanked out the dealership just like you blanked out your personal information on the field report.
What have you accomplished by posting this on here? Who have you helped? Your original post was to inform the community how poorly you perceive you were treated. Yet you don't state what you said or how you acted. There are two sides to every story.

No where in this thread have I seen an out pour of people coming forward with the same issue as you. You referenced a couple of posts from other forums that don't even have any relevance to your issue. Two posts reference 1 series vehicles, one references an e92. So you list five cases of a similar issue as yourself, yet you assume that this is some widespread problem that BMW is trying to "sweep under the rug". Several of the threads even have posters chiming in on how other dealerships had difficulty resolving the issue AND how many other makes/models have similar issues.

You make an assumption that the techs that couldn't resolve this issue are "incompetent". We are mechanics not engineers. We fix cars so they run properly. We don't isolate and resolve design flaws or fabrication issues. You assume that this was such an easy fix. But you haven't the slightest clue to how much time it took the mechanic to identify and resolve your issue.

Congratulations! You "beat" the big bad dealership. You must be impressed with yourself. Take a minute and think about who's lives you may have affected by posting this. And for what? A little noise that bothered you. Get over yourself.
Bimmermann - I'm going to guess that you were asked by the owner of the dealer to post to this forum since you just joined this month and you say you work at a BMW dealership which is owned by the same owners of the dealer that originally serviced my car and did not fix the noise.

In answer to your accusations and innuendos:

You obviously did not read my original post. My intention had nothing to do with defaming anyone and I did not defame anyone. Everything I have said is true and accurate. If you notice in my original post I do not refer to any particular dealer, I do not mention any technician, manager or dealer owner. As for the filed report - leaving in the dealer name was an oversight. I probably did not look for or take notice of the dealer identity in the report because I was told by the head office tech that he did not use any dealer to finally fix my car. But you're probably right - I was more concerned with my personal confidential information being removed - shoot me.

My intention was three-fold:
1) to call out BMW (the whole company, not just a dealer) for ignoring this problem for 3 years;
2) to help people with the same clicking noise in the back of their BMW resolve the issue (because I am all too aware how damn annoying it is);
3) to make sure BMW does something about this issue and the horrible customer service - for my particular situation and others with similar circumstances - and judging by the forums there are a lot of them.

I don't understand what you mean when you say I did not "state what [i] said or how [i] acted"? How would you know - you weren't there?

You obviously didn't read the threads I posted very well. I identified at least 100 people with the same issue as me. Is an e92 not a 3-series car? Why wouldn't it have the same issue? They sure seem to judging by their posts. As for the 1 series posts - there were some people in that thread complaining of the same issue. Maybe it affects the 1 series too.
So far 324 people have downloaded the BMW Field Report for the resolution to the clicking noise in my car; I assume that most of them think they have the same issue as mine. And that's only the people who read the post. There must be hundreds or thousands more who have just given up on it or don't have the wherewith all to deal with it.

When you say not to blame the techs as they "don't isolate and resolve design flaws or fabrication issues", you seem to be implying that this is in fact, as I suspect, a design flaw or fabrication issue. At least someone at BMW is admitting it. Thank you.

Actually I do know how much time it took the mechanic to identify and resolve my issue (the one from head office who finally did) because I asked him. He said that after driving it around with me for half and hour and driving it around by himself for a bit, he found the problem quickly. Granted he did have the benefit of me telling him where I thought the issue might lie - just as I told the dealer who did very little past the first service to fix it - according to them they "fiddled with a few things in the car".

Who's lives are you accusing me of affecting by this post? Did I name anyone besides the executives at BMW head office? I complained about the specific employees to BMW head office in private. I gave them ample opportunity to apologize and correct the situation and they did not. Are you saying that I should not complain about horrid customer service? Are you saying that I should just accept being treated inappropriately and unprofessionally? Anyone who pays for a product or a service has a right to complain...and should complain if they can handle the aggravation and time involved.
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:04 PM   #58
Bimmermann
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Your post is very clear about your intentions. You joined this forum and other forums for the sole purpose of garnering sympathy for yourself and to gain recognition for your efforts. Your posts and username confirm this. Get off your high horse.

The owner asked me to post? Wow. Do you even think before you post?

Yes, I did only join this forum recently because I only recently acquired a BMW. If you view my other posts, you would realize I am here to offer my help to this community. On the other hand, look at your other posts and it is clear why you joined.
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:42 PM   #59
pissedcustom
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Do you think before you post?
Why would I possibly need sympathy and recognition for my efforts. Are you 12?

So you're saying that although you're a technician at BMW, you just decided this month to join and post because you just bought a BMW. And it had nothing to do with my posts and the issues I have raised with the owner of your dealership and the BMW head office? Wow - that is quite the coincidence.

Especially since you're basically telling me to shut up - You're really as helpful as you say you are - thank you.

At least you didn't deny implying that this is in fact, as I suspect, a design flaw or fabrication issue when you said in your post not to blame the techs as they "don't isolate and resolve design flaws or fabrication issues".

Perhaps you should spend more of your time offering help to this community, as you claim to be doing, rather than trying to shut me up.
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:08 PM   #60
Bimmermann
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I specifically came on this site to look for a roof rack for an E90 that I just purchased on August 9th. I'm not 12 but you sure act like you are. I previously had no reason to join this forum as my passion was in other cars before. Check vortex and audizine and you will see my posts all over. A friend and a valued member of this community referred me here as he said it is the largest bmw forum for the gta. I just happened to come across your ridiculous post while scrolling through a new community. Anyways, I'm done with you. Keep trolling.
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328, click, customer service, e90, noise in rear

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