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Old 11-05-2010, 08:03 PM   #46
ScotcH
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I'm not sure what you guys are arguing about. The m52/s50/s52 are all the same block, the same head, the same valves, etc. The difference is bore, stroke, and cams and injectors (s50 is smaller). That's IT. Make each of those engines OBD1 with M50 intake, M3 cams, and it will go like this: s52 > s50 > m52. It's just simple physics and math ... more displacement = more power.

Yes, the m52 has a square borexstroke (84x84) so it's really friendly to higher rpms with proper head work and bigger cams (like Sunbelts). Otherwise, there really is no difference. Given the same mods, the result will be like I posted above (given everything else being equal, like ring condition, etc.)

All you're seeing is tuning and dyno variences. A good tune will always be better than a factory tune, even given the same cams, and could very well make the m52 dyno better than a stock s50.
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Old 11-05-2010, 08:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
I'm not sure what you guys are arguing about. The m52/s50/s52 are all the same block, the same head, the same valves, etc. The difference is bore, stroke, and cams and injectors (s50 is smaller). That's IT. Make each of those engines OBD1 with M50 intake, M3 cams, and it will go like this: s52 > s50 > m52. It's just simple physics and math ... more displacement = more power.

Yes, the m52 has a square borexstroke (84x84) so it's really friendly to higher rpms with proper head work and bigger cams (like Sunbelts). Otherwise, there really is no difference. Given the same mods, the result will be like I posted above (given everything else being equal, like ring condition, etc.)

All you're seeing is tuning and dyno variences. A good tune will always be better than a factory tune, even given the same cams, and could very well make the m52 dyno better than a stock s50.
Thank you Arek!
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:09 PM   #48
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????
Doogee, im totaly on your side for the money, the pay out is much better! I havent seen a s52 engine complete for less then $2000, so for less then $2000 i can be making the same numbers on my m52, as a stock s52 engine. For a guy that is just getting into the bmw world all this info you all have posted has been very useful
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:12 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by EURO_TRASH View Post
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????
Doogee, im totaly on your side for the money, the pay out is much better! I havent seen a s52 engine complete for less then $2000, so for less then $2000 i can be making the same numbers on my m52, as a stock s52 engine. For a guy that is just getting into the bmw world all this info you all have posted has been very useful
Same as a stock S50.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:15 PM   #50
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Save the boost till after you've up graded the suspension and reinforced the car, also install the M3 sub frame reinformen plates b4 u do anything, find my build thread and you'll see why. Bmws are a corning dream, looking to autocross and track schools to get the most enjoyment outa it.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:47 PM   #51
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+++++ complete all maintenance on the car and reinforcements, you will be very sorry otherwise! I suggest you go spend a few weeks and read bimmerforums forced induction section. There is a lot of useful info there and a couple high hp M52 and S52 build threads. Since you already have an M52 I wouldn't bother wasting money on swapping in a new motor. Even though ICS performance is building some absolutely INSANE S52's your M52 on boost will be more than enough power. Lastly, going turbo is not all fun and games. There is a lot of maintenance involved.

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Save the boost till after you've up graded the suspension and reinforced the car, also install the M3 sub frame reinformen plates b4 u do anything, find my build thread and you'll see why. Bmws are a corning dream, looking to autocross and track schools to get the most enjoyment outa it.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:30 PM   #52
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And yes, thanks for proving me right, Kurt.

3000rpm: S50 + 5-10lb-ft
4000rpm: S50 + 15-20lb-ft

From there on it's close, but the S50 still makes more torque right to redline.
/M52 argument. You can keep going on all you want Kurt, but this is fact. Make the same power and torque and we'll talk.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:30 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
/M52 argument. You can keep going on all you want Kurt, but this is fact. Make the same power and torque and we'll talk.
Like I said before. You're judging this all off one dyno, which happens to be quite a bit higher than majority of S50/S52 dynos.

Also, when are you really in the 3000-4000rpm range in a race? Never.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:42 AM   #54
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Quote by Jay from this link..... http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101532

"...and I'm stoked. Way stronger than it should be given the specs.

Build Date: 08/95
Mileage: 166,132 miles (269,000km)
Gas: 91 Shell
Mods: Dinan 3.5" CF intake, stock otherwise
Dyno Type: Dynojet (TAG Racecraft)
Dyno Conditions: Freezing
Gear Dynoed: 4th
Peak RWHP: 216.1hp SAE
Peak RWTQ: 206.6ft-lb SAE"

motor was not stock, had an intake...and a new vanos....and you said it yourself...."...and I'm stoked. Way stronger than it should be given the specs"

So your chart is not representive of an average stock S50
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:11 AM   #55
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CAI $200
M50 manifold $200
Test pipe $600
Software $700
Cams $400
Exhaust $400
Diff $350

= $2850
that's an approx total which is still more than a s52 let alone a s50. WAAAAAY better off to buy a s50 or s52 and then taking the remained of the money and throwing some bolt ons onto that
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:14 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie_s999 View Post

motor was not stock, had an intake...and a new vanos....and you said it yourself...."...and I'm stoked. Way stronger than it should be given the specs"

So your chart is not representive of an average stock S50
an intake doesn't do shit, so yes it was basically a stock motor, and a new vanos is maintenance not a performance upgrade
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:22 AM   #57
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an intake doesn't do shit, so yes it was basically a stock motor, and a new vanos is maintenance not a performance upgrade

Yes vanos is maintance but read the thread... someone quoted him as saying it felt much stronger after it was done, A motor with a fresh vanos can run stronger the one that's worn.

A intake on a "freezing" day can make a difference on a dyno.

And your prices are sky high, not acurate and cause neither of your comparisons includes labor they mean nothing
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:35 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk325i View Post
CAI $200
M50 manifold $200
Test pipe $600
Software $700
Cams $400
Exhaust $400
Diff $350

= $2850
that's an approx total which is still more than a s52 let alone a s50. WAAAAAY better off to buy a s50 or s52 and then taking the remained of the money and throwing some bolt ons onto that
What the hell are you talking about?


M50 Manifold - $60
Track Pipe - yes $600
Software - $200
Cams - $250
Diff - $350 sure

=$1460

I don't have an exhaust. Stock M3 muffler which is no more effective than a stock 328 muffler...
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:41 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie_s999 View Post
Quote by Jay from this link..... http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101532

"...and I'm stoked. Way stronger than it should be given the specs.

Build Date: 08/95
Mileage: 166,132 miles (269,000km)
Gas: 91 Shell
Mods: Dinan 3.5" CF intake, stock otherwise
Dyno Type: Dynojet (TAG Racecraft)
Dyno Conditions: Freezing
Gear Dynoed: 4th
Peak RWHP: 216.1hp SAE
Peak RWTQ: 206.6ft-lb SAE"

motor was not stock, had an intake...and a new vanos....and you said it yourself...."...and I'm stoked. Way stronger than it should be given the specs"

So your chart is not representive of an average stock S50

Another Jay quote:

"Most stock S50s seem to be getting 200-210 on Dynojets, and I have yet to see a chart for one with as much mileage as mine.

Jay"




Just like I said earlier! I can't believe how full of shit you've been about this debate.
300,000km no it looks like 270 with a fresh vanos?
Stock? Nope.
Had intake, ya I know they don't do much at all, but hey still not stock ya big liar.

I have no beef with you, I just don't give up when I know I'm right.

I'm the first one to admit the S50 and S52 have more potential than the M52 when you mod them. The S52 especially.
But these people arguing that buying one is better on the wallet are wrong. BUT it depends if you do your own work.

It cost me around $1500 to become faster than the average M3. S52's sell for around $2500 still these days. Sooo not worth it. It's a $1500 motor imo.
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Old 11-07-2010, 11:58 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by blk325i View Post
an intake doesn't do shit, so yes it was basically a stock motor, and a new vanos is maintenance not a performance upgrade
If an intake doesn't do shit why did you toss another $200 on your little mod list?

Ugh, you M guys will do anything to defend your Fake American M3 title
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